TRANSCRIPT of
PROCEEDINGS
between
CUBAN OFFICIALS
and JFK HISTORIANS
TAPE 8 of 8
NASSAU BEACH HOTEL
7/9 DECEMBER 1995
NASSAU TAPE 8 ---------SATURDAY
SLIDE PRESENTATION
DEC 9, 1995
[NOTE: The translation was so confusing that this
transcript reflects the
English translation directly from the Spanish by a Cuban
and does not reflect
the words of the translator in Nassau.]
Rodriguez: Not much time...maybe later.
First image [slide] control point of CIA across from the
Cuban consulate
in Mexico --- the window of the building. This is the
subject to which we
offered yesterday that worked in that control point. Here
you see sticking
a hand out to open the blinds to be able to photograph with
_______________
counseled??? the people who entered or exited the Cuban
consulate...I gave
you the address yesterday. This is one of the individuals
that worked there...Cuban...that
had a cultured personality...you must be familiar with these
photographs
as we turned them over in 1978 to the House of
Representatives. I am sure
Tony Summers will recall it...he is not here now. According
to Henry [Cabot]
Lodge __________???, this is one of the locations to watch
the Cuban consulate.
We knew about it.
Another image... An aspect of the __________dictamen? done
about the espionage
means that they were installed in secret form of course in
the locations
of our embassy and consulate. Here it says "telephone
equipment". The bug
installed in the telephone allowed conversations to be heard
even when the
receiver was on the telephone...up to six meters of distance
from where people
were talking. These bugs worked from the energy from the
telephone lines
itself and transmitted the signals clearly of the
conversations to a distance
from 80 to 100 meters outside the locations [of the bugs]
...and... the CIA
control building was about 50 meters from the Cuban
consulate and embassy.
So, therefore, they received an audible signal of the
highest quality. Everything
that was said from the Cuban consulate, the commercial
office and other locations
in the Cuban embassy...I can't say which now. So the CIA was
able to penetrate
with its technical means our installations. Since when? We
do not know. These
equipment [the bugs] were discovered, disconnected in 1964.
It is very possibly
they heard conversations of our ambassador about 1962. This
listening system
that was installed in the telephone was combined with
microphones that were
inserted in the wood of the furniture, some window frames.
These as well
as the bugs on the telephones transmitted the signals by
radio to a distance
of 80-100 meters. In this case these radio transmitters
worked on battery
energy, activated from the outside. They could be turned on
and off at will.
The technical means during this time were not only found at
the consulate
or our embassy, but were also found in other diplomatic
installations abroad
of other countries. We had knowledge of these, the
components of which were
U.S. making and were not normal commercial equipment.
Similar equipment is
sold commercially according to our technician, these devices
found in the
Cuban installations were specially made.
This is essential. By this means they could hear all
conversations in all
locations. No doubt the CIA was able to hear Oswald's voice
during his visit.
?____________: When you did discover these devices in '64,
were they cancellate
in the office where Duran had worked in?
Rodriguez: Yes Duran and another one.
?____________: The equipment in the widow panes was also six
meters?
Rodriguez: Yes, six meters.
?____________: Did you also find these devices in Duran's
office in '64?
Rodriguez: Yes, yes. This was a common locale, in the
telephones. I don't
remember the month, but I know it was in '64. With respect
to Duran's office
at least at the time they [the bugs] were discovered, what
happened in that
room should have been covered by these bugs... perfectly.
Oswald was not
only in Duran's office but also in Azcue's in a loud voice.
Furthermore,
they were installed in such a way that they could hear the
conversations
from any angle originated...one bug compensated
another...conversations could
not have been missed.
?____________: Were there more than one telephone at the
consulate?
Rodriguez: Yes of course. I could not say how many. The
secretary, Azcue...
?____________: Did you find a bug in every telephone, in all
telephones?
Rodriguez: I'm not interested in the number 112845. Yes,
yes, the phone used
by Duran, Azcue, and the other telephones. That is the
number Duran gave
to Oswald July 10. I would have to ask the experts. He has
the information
about the phones but not the numbers...he is going to
check...this is mainly
a technical report...what kind of
equipment...conclusions...what possibilities
there are to intercept.
?____________: The issue...the CIA taped conversation within
a consulate
in which Silvia is asking for the number of the
consulate...this is September
27...day Oswald came in...and so she is told number
112845...this is the
number she gives him. Also the CIA bugged Silvia's phone and
transmitted this intercept...but they should have also
intercepted at the
Cuban end and they, CIA,
never gave this info to Washington.
Rodriguez: This shows that the CIA has withheld and or
manipulated information.
We talked about it yesterday...I'd see no reason to go over
it. I am going
to check if there is information regarding this particular
phone number.
I want to make sure they know. They must have heard any
conversations in
the room.
?___________: Now I'm talking about a telephone conversation
out of the Soviets...
these are two different points...
Rodriguez: Of course --- Of course.
Next slide!
This is a topic I was not able to cover yesterday,
incriminating letters.
These I was able to translate to English and to abbreviate.
This is a summary
of what we concluded about this incident, gives a general
idea. Five letters
sent. [Pedro Charles letters] Apparently four were sent
through Havana mail,
fifth one from signature [postmark] does not seem to have
been sent from
Havana. In Cuba remains the original. There are four return
addresses, Jorge
and Pedro Charles, Miguel Galvan Lopez and Mario del Rosario
Molina. Two
of these letters had left Cuba one day after the murder [of
JFK], 23 November
1963, signed by Pedro Charles and Molina. Two of the letters
signed by Pedro
Charles and Jorge have dates before the assassination, tenth
(10th) and fourteenth
(14th) of November 1963. A third one signed by Miguel Galvan
Lopez has the
date of November 27, 1963, two days after the assassination.
The other two
have no information. These letters, done a few days before,
touch on topics
that were known only after words by the investigators and
were written before
the assassination. We will come back to this.
In all of the letter's text it involves Cuba to the
assassination. It gives
an image of a conspiracy
between Oswald and a Cuban official, and others are
dedicated to denounce
this relationship. Well, this is the essence that I can give
you in relation
to these letters based on information we have been able to
access.
Next slide!
This is the letter that remained in our possession, signed
by Jorge, addressed
to Lee, Miami, Florida, dated November 14. This is one of
the letters done
before the date and never left Cuba, postmarked November 23.
The text is
of a conspiracy nature. Some of the topics that were known
later. This letter
was the only original in our possession. We did an analysis
of it, graphologically
and equipment used to write it to determine by which means
it had been written.
Furthermore, graphologically [hand writing analysis] to
determine the characteristics
of the person who wrote it.
Question on the address... L.H. Oswald, Royalton Hotel, no
street address.
Remember that all of
these letters, two of them, were discarded by the FBI. The
FBI sent a letter
with a memorandum to the Warren Commission down playing them
because two
of the letters were found to have been written by the same
person. It was
concluded [by the FBI] that it had been the effort of
isolated people from
inside Cuba trying to implicate the Cuban Government with
the assassination.
And this is the conclusion we ARE NOT IN AGREEMENT with.
We are convinced that this was part of a plan...a plan to
_____ involve our
country...tying to the visit of Oswald to Cuba. And this is
one more fact.
Next slide!
This is the chart that allows us to determine with which
typewriter it was
done. It was a Remington
typewriter, Pica system, model 16, and these are the
peculiarities of the
typewriter used to write this letter. You see how the "a" is
worn out here?
This individualizes the typewriter in our judgement. What is
the importance
of all this? If we obtain documents elaborated in the CIA
station in Mexico
City...original documents typewritten, we could determine if
this typewriter
was located there. For example, any document of any suspect,
Howard Hunt,
a well known writer of police novels... _______ have
personal letters, we
can see and tell about the ______...and from a legal point
this carries some
weight.
Well, we characterize the person by the way they write.
Everything seems
to point at, although we
cannot affirm it categorically, maybe. You can do it, the
researchers present,
because we have their original in our possession, the
letters that were sent
to Robert Kennedy, that according to the FBI records were
two, and the FBI
concluded were written by the same typewriter. Also they
were written with
this type of machine. They [the FBI] do not offer any
details. If we could
get access to their research, we could compare and formulate
some conclusion.
Furthermore, of the five letters, we only have knowledge of
the text to four.
The four texts seem to come from the same machine, results
from the graphology
(hand written analysis).
In our book, we are going to show the handwriting report for
those who have
an opportunity to search.
Next slide!
?_____________: Did the Cuban Government share this letter
with the Warren
Commission?
Rodriguez: This was published, but what happened was that
this incident was
disregarded in 1964. I don't know if it was published in
1978. It was _________
. We had possession of the letter...that this letter had
been disregarded
by the FBI. The problem was that this was something that had
been disregarded,
had no value. In 1993 it came to our attention that the
letters were disregarded
and we decided to re-look and analyze in detail all of
these. And we realized
it was an important issue in the thesis of the intent to
blame Cuba.
Next slide!
Here is a summary of the elements that support our idea...
WOMAN SPEAKING FAST IN ENGLISH..................
Questions about the sample original letter in the previous
slide, it is to
show the type of machine used, the machine is in the U.S. We
were first making
an analysis as to the type of machine used to write the
letters. It was concluded
to be a Remington typewriter, manufactured in the U.S.,
model #16, Pica system.
These are international codes so we showed a photo of a
similar machine so
you can see what it looks like. It doesn't mean it is the
same machine used
to write the letters. This allows us to compare the document
in the possession
of any suspect that might have participated in the
conspiracy. (Rodriguez
turns here and explains to the translator what he means.)
Question: The letters of Pedro Charles were published by the
commission.
I imagine you have the
page number.
Rodriguez: I looked for it and did not find it. They are in
the volume with
no index. I found references to it but not the page.
Q_____________________: There are new documents released
since 1992 on the
letter and how the CIA used the mail inside Cuba.
Rodriguez: I think that is very important, but also, it is
important to find
out how the FBI concluded and disregarded the evidence about
the machine
used to write the letters that reached the U.S. This will
allow us [to see],
when compared to our study, the results [of the Cuban
conclusion], to reach
a conclusion in part as to how many machines were used, and
secondly, the
results of the handwriting analysis. If we could analyze the
originals with
the photocopies of the letters we do not have in our
possession, we could
conclude how many people participated.
In summary, we have the impression that this incident was
disregarded because
it constituted proof that there was a plan, and if there was
a plan, there
was a conspiracy. That is the summary. Any questions?
Q_____________: When did the U.S. find out that the Cubans
had the letter?
Rodriguez: As far as I know through the Warren Commission...
through the
FBI.
Q_____________: No, what I mean is when did the U.S. first
know Cuba had
possession of this letter?
Rodriguez: It was publicized in 1978... the thing was... At
that time there
was a lot of campaigning with the issue of Cuba and
accusations were increasing...
in the days previous to the Commission, House of
Representatives Select,
such as the 1977 CIA report... the Church Commission, all of
these "disinformation"
campaigns...
Excuse me, but I have to leave, no.
Translator: There is a question, is it possible to meet
again...I cannot
give you an exact time. I am
going to see _______, then I have two meetings.... leave a
message in room
316 or leave message with Mirta... Mirta will let them know
when he is back...
Audience: I don't know. I think the text [of the letter] is
in volume 26,
page 148.
Rodriguez: I don't think the letter appears, but I will
check it.
Audience: Those other things are not published, but
referenced by Lesar and
the National Archives.
Rodriguez: Does he have them here?
Audience: No! It is unlikely... if not in the published...
but somebody in
the review board could get
them.
What we are talking here is an actual reproduction of the
letters, as it
appears as a facsimile... a high quality reproduction. I'm
sure he knows
better than me if there is a facsimile or not on that page
sand if it doesn't
exist there, then it seems to me that it is an assassination
record. It should
be in the Warren Commission files in the Archives... the
original should
be. Gaeton and I could give to you the Warren Commission
document references.
There are few facsimiles in those Commission Documents...
the original letters
should be in the Warren Commission files...
[Transcriber's note: This last guy keeps talking on and on
while the speaker
is doing something else. The interpreter is going on
and the speaker's
body language says "I want to get out of here and go on a
tour of Nassau!]
Audience: Shall I give you the citation? anybody have a
piece of paper? The
CIA had many
typewriters.
Rodriguez: Fine, but we have to start somewhere, maybe we
hit the "bell"
[jackpot].
Audience: The records I've been looking at are mostly CIA
cables and reports.
I know of typewriter reports that we can use, but they
probably are not from
the same machine... there are some memos written...
[At this point a crowd of people enters the room]
Rodriguez: It is one more possibility. Keep it in mind. A
personal letter
by Howard Hunt, for example, done at home, or at a friend's
house...
END TAPE 8 -- SLIDE PRESENTATION
END OF TRANSCRIPT *****
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